+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 10 of 10

Thread: C2 Turbo conversions...

  1. #1

    Default C2 Turbo conversions...

    Hi guys, basically due to the number of enquiries, ive decided to stick a thread up here explaining your options for turbo conversions using the J4 saxo and/or the JP4 c2 engine...

    Management....

    Right before anything else, when it comes to proper tuning on the c2, or most cars for that matter, standalone management is needed to allow proper mapping and tuning of the engine, be it throttle bodies, supercharger, or in this case turbocharging...
    There are plenty of ecu manufacturers around nowdays to choose from, but we have found DTA to be one of the best entry level ecu's around, thanks to their constant updating of software and ecu firmware, and the features that are included even in the S40 base model. These come in at 525 including the ecu plug from DTA, and will require a wiring loom ( 250 for a 4cylinder ) to be made and a few new sensors to be fitted to run it (water and air temp, MAP sensor ect) . Then once installed obviously the cost of mapping it, which depends on the spec of the car/ time required

    Engine choice....
    When it comes to choosing which combination of parts to use it depends entirely on what your ultimate goal for the car is....
    Want no more than 230ish bhp?? Then the stock JP4 c2 engine will be fine, And if its up to date with servicing can more than likely be used without any internal work...
    If your thinking more in the region of 230-280bhp then a J4/JP4 hybrid is the best way forward, this uses the bottom end from a saxo engine and the head from the c2 engine, mainly due to the saxo having stronger rods, and the gudgeon pins being fully floating, rather than the sweat fit ones used on the c2 ( basically means that you cant use forged pistons on the c2 rods ) This will allow for upto 1bar of boost on origional citroen parts, without the use of a head spacer ect.
    If you want upto 320bhp then again the hybrid is the best option but using forged pistons to allow for more boost, but this option will cost more due to it basically being a full rebuild, with ACL race bearings ect.
    Anything above 320bhp will require a full engine build, with forged rods, low comp forged pistons, Race bearings, new oil/water pump, Basically the whole thing reworked.
    For those seeking the biggest power acheiveable will be looking at headwork after the 380bhp mark, with custom profile cams and a Custom inlet manifold, but this really is the biggest bucks option.

    Gearbox choice...
    The standard c2 box is basically an updated MA saxo box, with hydraulic clutch and cable gear selection, these boxes are renowned for breaking casings after the 200 ft/lbs of torque mark, but we have seen through our own cars that when treated with a little mechanical sympathy can take more for long periods....
    Baically anyone looking at more than the basic j4 hybrid option will need to consider a BE gearbox upgrade... in the case of the c2 this isnt too bad a job, but does require the parts from two gearboxes to be used to make one good one for the c2, and for new driveshafts, a custom driveshaft carrier, and new gearcables to be used. The BE boxes are good for upto ( and in some case over ) 400bhp, after that point anyone mad enough to be running that sort of power will need to have a Dog engagement gearset fitted to take the power.

    Turbo choices....

    When it comes to turbo's the price when buying a new garret or similar is pretty high, with most starting at asround 700, upto 1400 for the biggest you would use on a 1.6 c2 engine, and at all costs do not think an ebay special will suffice, as they are usually cheap chinese models that will wear out quickly, smoke, and worst of all be very laggy.
    We tend to prefer using OEM turbo's from other cars, as they are produced to do high mileage, and are in most cases optimised for a balance between cost and efficiency.
    TD04 impreza turbo....This little turbo is very well suited to the J4/JP4 engine, and will spool early and hold power to the limiter, our saxo is making 282 bhp on one of these and is on full boost by 3000 rpm, they can be picked up in good condition from 100-200.
    IHI VF series turbo's..... these are also from the impreza range, but vary in size depending on the year and model of the car they came from, The ones we use most are the VF35, VF34(roller bearing),and the VF30, that is also the size order from smallest to largest, these turbos generally have a little more lag, but will produce higher bhp further up the rev range. These are more expensive, and the VF30/35 are around 350, with the roller bearing vf34 being more like 400+.
    80 series Evo9 turbo...These are a good choice for high bhp engines, and will produce upto 400+ bhp with the right supporting mods, they are also a twin scroll turbo, which basically improves efficiency and also gives less lag for its size, these can be had for around 400-500.

    Those are the main factors that will affect any build, above all else you need to have an idea of a power figure you have in mind, as everything else would be tailored to suit your needs, Don't think its a "cheap job" by any means, but it also doesn't have to cost anywhere near what some companies will try and charge... heres a basic rundown of the overall cost for the entry level setup....
    For a drive in drive out fully built service your looking in the region of 4500, could be a little lower, or higher depending on choice of parts, but that would include the following (and more smaller parts needed to complete the job)...

    DTA s40 ecu
    wiring loom
    launch control and in dash shift/warning light
    mapping
    all sensors
    slimline fan swap
    Cable throttle conversion with saxo throttle body
    470cc injectors
    walbro 255 in tank pump
    helix 6 paddle clutch
    gmc engine mounts
    turbo manifold with td04 turbo
    38mm external waste gate with optional screamer pipe
    2.5 inch down-pipe
    all oil feed / return lines with sump modified
    Air intake and air filter
    chargepipes with all silicone joiners and vac lines ( your choice of colour )
    intercooler
    saxo coilpack( c2 one is immobilized ) and turbo plugs
    and plenty of other much smaller parts.....
    This is for the basic setup using the standard c2 JP4 engine, which would give around 220-230 @ 0.6-0.7bar of boost.

    Obviously the bigger your power aims the more the cost will go up as more expensive parts and more labour are needed.
    If anyone would like more info on this please feel free to post here so others can see them, it may help answer their questions too.
    Last edited by SeniorGT; 10-07-2013 at 07:46 PM.

  2. #2

    Default

    excellent ,thank you for that, nice to know your options,

  3. #3
    C2 Addict Advanced Poster adam is on a distinguished road adam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    ilkley, west yorkshire
    Posts
    2,578

    Default

    Interesting read, great guide senior
    Also having a dog box on a c2 would be awesome, I've just stripped and rebuilt one from an old formula Renault, they are so simple and people charge about 500 to strip and rebuild them! It's madness!
    Last edited by adam; 03-03-2013 at 03:46 PM.

    Done: anthracite wheels, rear 3 windows tinted, club stickers,, white headlight bulbs, red badges, , full ashley decat twinbox system, GSR induction kit , red engine cover, coilovers
    To come: Cams and Remap within a few months
    clicky---------->
    Black VTS progress thread <---------clicky

  4. #4
    Full Member ***simon*** is on a distinguished road ***simon***'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Bishops Cleeve, Cheltenham
    C2 Model
    07 VTS
    Posts
    953

    Default

    Price I pretty reasonable too 4.5k for drive in and out with some toys on top.

  5. #5
    Full Member Jonnyhague is on a distinguished road Jonnyhague's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Nottingham
    C2 Model
    Lobe
    Posts
    117

    Default

    Now I no what I'm saving up for now

  6. #6
    Full Member ashturnergt is on a distinguished road ashturnergt's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    blackburn
    C2 Model
    Vts
    Posts
    3,246

    Default

    Very very very good price considering the quality of work. Your manifolds are up there if not better than the dp stuff but they're about double the price!
    Just put of cutiousity how much would a be conversion be as IMO if going boost they're a much better option.
    Also how much would it add for a j4 bottom end?
    Red C2 Vts, GR Performance Serious Turbo build- Underway

    Black C2 Vts HDI daily runabout

    Black GT #705 V6-SOLD

  7. #7
    Full Member Science_VTS is on a distinguished road Science_VTS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Chippenham
    C2 Model
    VTS
    Posts
    1,760

    Default

    Hmmm

  8. #8
    Full Member smiffy_c2 is on a distinguished road smiffy_c2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Cambridge
    C2 Model
    1.6 Loeb
    Posts
    99

    Default

    How long would a turbo build take to build?
    Progress Thread! http://www.c2club.co.uk/showthread.p...-My-C2-By-Loeb
    Bad Ass Performance Induction Kit, Alpine CDE-175R HEadunit, Wheel Refurb in Black Chrome, FK Automotive De-Badged Grille, Team Heko Wind Deflectors.
    Instagram: smithy1019

  9. #9

    Default

    Depends on spec youre after really. Using the standard engine around 2-3 weeks. If your forging around a month.

  10. #10
    Newbie JT2910 is on a distinguished road
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    Wales
    C2 Model
    GT x2
    Posts
    2

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SeniorGT View Post

    Gearbox choice...
    The standard c2 box is basically an updated MA saxo box, with hydraulic clutch and cable gear selection, these boxes are renowned for breaking casings after the 200 ft/lbs of torque mark, but we have seen through our own cars that when treated with a little mechanical sympathy can take more for long periods....
    Baically anyone looking at more than the basic j4 hybrid option will need to consider a BE gearbox upgrade... in the case of the c2 this isnt too bad a job, but does require the parts from two gearboxes to be used to make one good one for the c2, and for new driveshafts, a custom driveshaft carrier, and new gearcables to be used. The BE boxes are good for upto ( and in some case over ) 400bhp, after that point anyone mad enough to be running that sort of power will need to have a Dog engagement gearset fitted to take the power.
    Firstly, thanks for the information.

    I'm currently needing to convert a MA to a BE3. I have a car with an XD(?) pattern BE box (the previous owner was going to fit a 2.0ltr), a car with 306/7 hubs, 306/7 shafts, a GT MA Gearbox and a VTS gearbox with an LSD in.

    I know you can fit a BE that's designed to work with a TU engine, but that means buying a kit that costs 500-600 on top of the gear box that allows you to fit it.

    I have also heard you can swap the internals - sounds like this is what you are referring to here? Does anyone know of a guide of how to do this? Or can someone tell me how it's done?

    Cheers!

+ Reply to Thread

Similar Threads

  1. Cleveland Car Conversions
    By Sag in forum Member Services
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 31-05-2015, 04:12 PM
  2. LPG 'gas' conversions? 60p a litre.
    By dillbar123 in forum Modifications
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: 26-11-2012, 09:24 PM
  3. Engine Conversions
    By BenJeffrey in forum Advice, Queries & Technical Problems
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 19-01-2011, 05:46 PM
  4. Replies: 63
    Last Post: 20-06-2010, 08:16 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts